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Interview by - Lalit Panikar
TIMES OF INDIA - 24th October 2001
The Shahi Imam is very incensed. Shabana Azmi's statement in response
to the Shahi Imam's call to jehad was widely reported in the media.
Two days ago in a T.V. interview Shabana Azmi asked the same question
to the Imam to his face " Imam Saheb, since you are inciting Indian
Muslims to wage a jehad in support of the Taliban, why don't you get
air dropped to Kandahar so that your problem can be solved and ours
too?". Shocked by her boldness the Imam replied "I do not react
to nachne- gane wali t...." the T.V. channel bleeped the remaining
remarks. The shocked audience protested with outrage. A woman sitting
next to Shabana in the audience burst into tears. A young boy came running
up and said "I am a practising Muslim - I am deeply offended
by the Imam's remarks and apologise to you profusely". Shabana
unfazed as ever, asked the compere to carry on with the programme, laughed
lightly and said "what else did you expect from him?" we spoke
to Shabana Azmi.
Ques : What is your response to the Shahi Imam's remark?
Ans : I feel sorry for the poor fellow-Shows him up for who
is - for the respect he has for women, artists and the liberals.
Ques : Will the media not play this up?
Ans : It will be the greatest service the media can do. This
one statement will do him great damage because he speaks in the name
of Islam & Islam accords the greatest respect to women.
Ans : I unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack on U.S.A. on llth
September 2001. No provocation can justify the killing of 7000 innocent
people However, post llth September there seems to be a concerted effort
to polarize the world into two - the 'civilised' western world and the
'barbaric' Islamic world. This causes me deep anguish. The pan - Islamic
'umma' is a myth. Islam is not a monolith. It is spread over more than
50 countries and takes on the colour and the culture of the country
in which it resides - so it speaks in the moderate voice, the liberal
voice, the reformist voice the conservative and the fundamentalist voice.
But to equate the whole Islamic world with terrorism is both untrue
and unfair. It is strange that the Hiroshima bombings were never called
Christian terrorism, the LTTE's action is never called Hindu terrorism,
why is the llth September attack called Islamic terrorism?
Ques : Who is responsible for this?
Ans : To a large extent the western media, in the way it has
portrayed the issue, without allowing any space for the complexities
involved.
George Bush for declaring you are either with us or with the terrorists.
We are with neither. Further fuel is added to fire by the irresponsible
utterances of people like Imam Bukhari who's call for jehad & support
of Taliban jeopardizes Indian Muslims.
Ques : Isn't it the absence of leadership amongst Muslims that
is also responsible?
Ans : May I ask where is the Hindu leadership - is Ashok Singhal
the leader of all Hindus ? Who is the leader of all Christians? The
fact is that the partition left such deep scars on Muslims who stayed
behind, that they deliberately kept away from the affairs of their community
for fear of being called 'Communal'. The moderate Muslim didn't speak
up when the Muslim was butchered in Malliana, killed in Bhiwandi, annihilated
in Moradabad. However the Babri Masjid demolition was a watershed for
the moderate Muslim. He realized that he had respond to the needs of
his community. Ever since the moderate Muslim has always spoken up.
But this doesn't make good copy. The media plays up the provocative
utterances of the fundamentalists - the moderate's voice doesn't fit
the stereotype - makes me suspect that perhaps there is a design to
the invisibility accorded to the moderate Muslims voice. In early January
'93 even as Muslims were being butchered in the Bombay riots post Babri
Masjid demolition - the Shahi Imam, true to his nature, issued a fatwa
that all Muslims should boycott the Republic day in protest. My husband
Javed Akhter and Javed Anand got 9000 signatures from Muslims who had
been brutalized during the riots in areas such as Behrampada stating
that they rejected the Imam's call because it would be the abdication
of their right as citizens. By 5 pm the same day the statement was issued
to all the newspapers. NOT ONE SINGLE PAPER published it. What explanation
can there possibly be?
A couple of years ago there was a photograph of Nelson Mandela, who
is old enough to be my grandfather greeting me with a kiss on my cheek.
Some obscure Muslim organization denounced this as unIslamic and declared
that my effigies would be burned if my father i.e. noted poet Kaifi
Azmi did not apologise to them within 3 days. This made front-page news.
When I called the newspaper office to find out if they had checked the
credentials of this organization, how long had it been in existence,
had its members ever done anything for the community, the answer was
no and yet they had deemed it fit to put this on the front page. 3 days
later when no effigies were burnt no mention was made to denounce the
organization.
I understand that the media is wont to highlight sensational news. I
am a believer in freedom of expression, so give the fundamentalist their
space, but please give equal space to the moderate opinion as well.
Don't re-inforce stereotypes, please invite people to gather information
before they rush to form an opinion.
Ques : Isn't it true that the moderate voice does not find resonance
within the community?
Ans : I am glad you asked me this question because this will
dispel several myths. A couple of years ago Imam Bukhari had issued
a Fatwa that all Muslims must vote for a particular candidate. He ended
up losing his election deposit. So much for the following he has. The
likes of the Imam are given legitimacy not by the people but by the
political leadership. Over the years, every time a Muslim issue needs
to be addressed political leaders consult the rabid rabble rousers never
the moderates. They are culpable as well.
Ques : What is the place Jehad holds in Islam?
Ans : Jehad means the struggle against wrong - The first Jehad
- Jehad - E - Akbar is the struggle to remove the evil within yourself
- Jehad-E- Qital justified only in extreme circumstances is the last
preferred option. It is not justified in Osama Bin Ladens call because
the Taliban has violated all principles of Islam in the way it has mutilated
women and perpetrated human rights violations.
Ques : Do you feel incensed that liberal Muslims are asked to
prove their credentials time and again?
Ans : I feel pained and deeply hurt. 54 years after partition
why are we hauled over the coals each time one single Muslim makes an
irresponsible statement? When the Bajrang Dal makes blatantly provocative
statements, when VHP defies court orders and storms the Ayodha site,
when the Taj Mahal is defaced by them, is the moderate Hindu asked to
denounce these acts? Even so, these are critical times and the moderate
has to get into activist mode because unless you shout from rooftops,
your voice is silenced.
Ques : So who do you think represents Muslims - the moderate
of the fundamentalist?
Ans : Before we dwell on this, we need to ask what are the issues
that concern the average Muslim what are his aspirations? - Roti Kapda,
Makaan, education, health the same as any average Hindu, Christan, Sikh
etc. The self appointed fundamentalist leaders do not provide any solutions
for this - they re- inforce only the 'communal' aspects of Muslim identity
using rhetoric to whip up communal frenzy and rage. The moderate on
the other hand speaks about education, employment, health.
Post September llth the moderate has been working very hard to dispel
fiction from fact, myth from reality and crying out loud that you can
note equate Islam with terror. The fundamentalist is only re-inforcing
the stereotype and perpetuating Huntington's 'clash of civilizations'
theory.
A huge section of Muslims have now learned the pitfalls of following
into the fundamentalist's trap.
Ques : What role is Pakistan playing in this?
Ans : The Pakistan Government's duplicity is amply evident. It
supports US against terrorism on one border and continues to fuel terrorism
on the other. What is happening in Kashmir today, (without going into
the history of its struggle) is not a freedom struggle, it is Pakistan
sponsored terrorism Palestine and Kashmir cannot be confused 3 lakh
Kashmir Pandits were made to leave the land of their birth - what is
their fault? The sinister design to communalize the Kashmir issue must
be made to fail. Pakistan is no friend of Indian Muslims. It only serves
to jeopardize them.
Ques : What will be the impact on Muslims in India?
Ans : We are constantly asked to prove our loyalty - when Pakistan
wins a cricket match against India and a couple of 100 Muslims cheer
all 15 crores Muslims here have to pay the price .This time around not
just 15 crore in India but all Muslims around the globe will be made
to pay the price and so we live in terror because such unfairness can
only fuel righteous anger and anger is the most potent of all weapons.
Ques : How do we break this stereotype?
Ans : The trouble is there is too much opinion, too little information.
Let us stop having knee jerk reactions let us root out prejudice. The
media has an extremely important role to play in providing various shades
of opinion and focusing on the grey areas. Let us not think in black
& white.
Ques : What is your view on U.S. action?
Ans : I question the U.S. policy, I question the U.S. governments
response because it is just as illogical and insane as was the action
of whoever is responsible for the llth September attack. Because you
are angry with the U.S. policy how can you kill 7000 innocent people?
On the other hand no body believed that the U.S. will restrict itself
to short air strikes at specifically targeted areas. Inevitably the
carpet bombing has started and we must call halt to this madness. The
Afghan people have suffered enough under the Taliban regime how will
destroying the poorest of the poor and innocent children, provide a
solution? One of the most painful of shoots of war is the numbness of
sensitivity it generates. UNICEF has reported that about 1,00,000 children
are likely to die in Afghanistan in the coming winter due to diarrhea,
pneumonia and other diseases. And this is a conservative figure because
it does not take into account the on-going war in Afghanistan nor what
will happen after the bombing has taken its toll. We unequivocally condemn
the terrorist attack on USA on September 11 2001. No provocation can
condone the killing of 7000 innocent people. But should our outrage
not include concern for the innocent children of Afghanistan? What is
their fault?
We must call halt to this madness. As the noted poet Sahir Ludhanvi
said.
Jung to khud hi ek masia hai,
Jung kya maslon ka hal degi?
Aag aur khoon aaj bakshegi
Bhook aur ehtiyaj kal degi.
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